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inpulse 500 - audio quality master output

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Topic starter
i noticed that the audio quality from the rca master output leaves a lot to be desired.
in headphones the quality is good, in recording also good.
the same file heard directly with the dac of the receiver is much better, listened with the master output of the mixer is very different. less detailed and dark, almost unsightly.
on the receiver i have eliminated all the filters, i pass everything and leave the signal clean but it does not improve.
the only doubt i have left is the quality of the rca cable, but i dont think it depends on him.
anyone have experience with this?
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Hello Ninosan,

I find exactly the opposite, the audio quality on dual RCA and dual 1/4" master output is outstanding, thanks to AKM velvet sound DAC.
As it mixes in hardware the mic and the Aux input, please mute the mic input and the Aux input with their volume knobs, and make sure the master out volume is not too high.

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Topic starter

I answer and I apologize for my English because I help myself with the google translator.
Don't misunderstand but to say that the RCA output is great only because it has a good DAC is a relative and superficial claim.

What sounds good is not the DAC (you can read whole articles on the subject) but all the circuits around it.
Certainly I also preferred this mix to others, of the same price range, because it has a 24 bit DAC. My files are mostly 24 bits and above and that would have guaranteed me less quality loss.

However it is still a mixer, it is not audiophile electronics and therefore I expected that the audio quality could not be exceptional.
You get the exceptional quality with electronics from purists in the HI-FI field, a mixer, by its nature, cannot be.

Certainly connecting the RCA output to an AV amplifier is not the best, although my Pioneer AV amplifier is excellent in the Home Teater field, it is less so in the HI-FI field.
So I connected to the RCA output my "IFI PRO ICAN" headphone amplifier which does not produce any noise in the HI-FI chain to which it is connected.

It turns out that the mixer produces a lot of noise.
This, as I said, does not depend on the DAC chip that is inside it but on all the electronics of the mixer.
Obviously in this price range we cannot expect great audio quality but the background noise produced is truly remarkable.

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Topic starter

In that case I think it can be the cable. All cables can act as an antenna / aerial, so unless it has a very good shielding, quite short and no other electronic devices are around it can pick up noise to some degree.
Also I'm not convinced that DJing is about audiophile experience. Obviously quality matters, but only to certain extent. 

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Topic starter
I agree with you, you don't need audiophile quality but the background noise is annoying.
I tried to change the cable, to remove other electronics and transformers, it doesn't change.
But I must also say that you hear the noise if you  play and you turn the amplifier volume to the maximum. Of course when you play at moderate volumes the sun covers the noise and is not perceptible.
I know that in this price range I can't expect much. There are also dedicated electronics (DACs) which cost more and have some noise.
Mine was just a comment in response to the user that they talk about "great" sound.
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Topic starter

Have you tried connecting your amplifier to anything else with the exact same pair of RCA cables and check if you have the same noise? How long actually is that RCA cable?

Also I'm not sure now what's exactly you want to tell with all this. I know the language barrier can be quite limiting and Google Translate is far from perfect, but so far what can be read from your comments is that you are unsatisfied with the RCA master output sound quality, but you don't expect much from it, which seems controversial to me. 

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Hello Ninosan,

1) Hercules mother company Guillemot has designed audio interfaces for 30 years, even before entering in DJing with Hercules, so the in-house audio engineers know how to get a good audio quality in a €299 device.

2) If the audio quality in your speakers is below your expectation, there are several possible explanations, as:

  • the most likely explanation is a saturation of the amplifier input: if you use home audio or home cinema systems, you must reduce the controller output level in turning down DJC I 500 Master output knob as
    - DJC I 500 output level is +4dBu (input level expected by Public Address speakers and pro audio equipement)
    - home audio systems line level is -10dBv (so +4dBu = +1.8 dBv, 11.8dBv over -10dBv, one must reduce it) 
    If you connect your DJ controller to a Home cinema system, you must connect it on the Aux input, if any, and reduce the master output level until it the audio quality is good. You must also disable any spacialisation effect from the AV amplifier when using the DJ controller as audio source.   
  • another possible origin is ground loop: to check if it is a ground loop, if the computer is a laptop, unplug the laptop power supply (the laptop then runs on battery) : if it stops the noise, the noise origine issue is either a ground loop or noisy laptop power supply,
  • the noise may come from the computer power supply: one can correct it in placing a USB hub with a power adapter between the computer USB port and the USB device (this cuts the noise of the computer USB bus power). I do not believe it is the case here as you would hear the noise also in the headphones.
  • the noise origin may also be a multi-socket power outlet, if the power outlet has a On/off switch with a LED, the LED noise may be transfered in the power (it is why in DJ / Pro audio , it is safer to use power outlets made for music, as these ones, whose LED noise is isolated).

3) HC Lab, an independant lab, has measured DJC I 500 inputs & outputs (not a DAC, the full assembled controller), and on the RCA master outputs the results are:

  • Dynamic range: 101 dB
  • THD+N ratio: -86dB
  • Signal to Noise ratio: 102dB

I can send you the complete HC Lab report in the private messaging area if you want. I do not post it on the forum page as this report includes measures of other DJ controllers.
 

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Topic starter
Hi User,
meanwhile, thank you for your precise explanation.
It was not my intention to criticize the console, which I have repeatedly said for this price is more than valid.
Instead I was reporting my impressions and my experience.
I had already thought about doing some tests as you rightly suggested, assuming there is some problem on the supply chain.
Regarding the audio quality, I have set the "perfect pure" function in stereo mode which bypasses any filter and effect, in fact I don't even have synchronization problems between headphones and speakers, which many complain when using an AV amplifier.
The input on the AV used and CD, dedicated to audio components (I have no AUX) and I have no problems with a signal that is too amplified, on the contrary ... it is too low even if the master I bring it to the maximum value but without entering red zone.
As speakers I have Klipsh towers which I assure you, they sound wonderfully good with the AV and its 10 year old DAC.
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Hello Ninosan,

Thanks for your answer.

Please let me know the model of AV amplifier: AV amplifiers saturate more easily than many other amplifiers, as the CD/DVD analog audio input of AV amplifiers must meet Dolby ProLogic specifications which are not tolerant to saturation.
For this reason, many AV amplifiers have an Aux input, since this Aux input is not Dolby certified.
I have found a Pioneer VSX-832 AV receiver, and I have tried with audio sources for with +4dBu output or higher (a Focusrite Solo, a DJC Inpulse 500, and a RME Fireface UC), 
- when connected on the AV receiver CD/DVD audio input, it saturates immediately (muffled sound, and not very loud),
- when connected on its Aux input (on front on VXS-832 AV receiver), the sound is OK with these 3 audio sources.

I used to have a Denon AVR 1403 AV receiver, and its audio inputs on the rear panel (CD, DVD, DVB-T, VCR) saturated very easily, so that I connected my home studio audio interface on the V Aux input on the front panel (to reach this connector, I had to remove a black plate).

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Topic starter
Hi user team,
thanks for your willingness to help me.
Meanwhile, I discovered the nature of the noise, it is caused by the power strip, probably the LED, I will try to change it with a suitable model.
Regarding the AV amplifier I have had a PIONEER SC-LX76 for about 7 years.
Your saturation theory is valid, but I don't see audio inputs on the front panel to solve the problem.
Here is the manual, if you kindly do a check, I'd like it too.
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Hello,

Thanks for your message.

  • If the power strip LED causes the noise, you may hear it in the headphones also if the headphones are sensitive enough.
  • If the headphones are very sensitive and you do not hear the LED noise of the power strip in the headphones, maybe the issue is not the LED, but a ground loop. If you have a ground loop, powering the PC on its battery should cut the noise.

I have checked Pioneer SC-LX76 manual which does not give much info on the line inputs: the 400mV nominal line input is normal for a -10dBv line input (-10dBv = 316mV), and lower than a +4dBu input (+4dBu = 1.23V), but a 400mV nominal input may or may not support a 1.23V input signal. I saw the Aux input on front seems to have been replaced by an iPhone input which seems to be to play video, please confirm the iPod input on the front panel, close from the USB, in a video input, not a 1/8'' stéreo audio in.

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Topic starter
hi user team,
thanks for the technical advice.
I can confirm that the noise is caused by the power strip. I unplugged all the power supplies, one at a time, only when I turn off the power strip does the background noise disappear.
I don't hear it in the headphones, even if they are quite sensitive (97 db - Technical Audio ATH-SR9.
The amplifier has a volume with indicator for deduction. Usually at -20 with audio sourround I have a very high sound pressure. With the mix I have to go up to 0 to get roughly the same sound pressure. At volume 0, if I silence the mix, the noise is barely perceptible, to hear it well I have to turn the volume up to +20, a volume that I could never use. However, if I turn off the power strip even at +20 the noise is almost imperceptible.
As for the Pioneer, I can confirm that they have positioned the Ipod socket as you have rightly seen too.
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Hello Ninosan,

Thanks or your report.

I have not the ATH-SR9 so I did not test, but obviously ATH-SR9 sensibility & resolution should be more than enough to hear a noise you can hear in speakers.
Your having to increase the input volume on the AV Receiver to hear DJC I 500 master output is counter intuitive, the opposite would be more logical, but playing a +4dBu source on a -10dBv input is always difficult. If you have the oppotunity to test DJC I 500 on a more tolerant audio system (Home studio or public address system), it would be interesting. If other audio gears connected to the AV receiver have a stereo line audio input, you may also test on these devices (Tape recoder, CD-R or DVD-R device for example)

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Topic starter
Hi User,
unfortunately I don't have any other audio systems at the moment. I'll check the audio devices if they have an input and I'll let you know how it goes.
Thank you.
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Topic starter
I checked and unfortunately the audio components don't have analog inputs.
So I connected an external DAC to USB and set the audio + output on this DAC.
But I have seen that the master and the pre-listening on the headphones do not work on the console. Obviously these sections work on the analog signal. Too bad, because you could use an external dac of higher audio quality and take advantage of its analog output. Maybe a digital output on the master in addition to the analog output would help.
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Hello Ninosan,

Both Djuced and Serato DJ Lite/Pro software can duplicate the master output to the computer speakers, so you can play the master on your USB DAC simultaneously with the master output of your DJControl Inpulse 500.

In Djuced
Connect your USB DAC to the PC, in addition to your DJControl Inpulse 500.
Run Djuced, click on Settings
In Audio Settings, check the field "Send Master to computer speakers" and select your USB DAC.

In Serato
Use the very last Serato DJ Lite (1.4.0) or Serato DJ Pro (2.4.0) released this week.
Set your USB DAC as default sound card in your PC or your mac
Run Serato
Go in Settings > Audio
At "Audio Output", check the field "User laptop speakers"

Remark: it may help if you could complete your profile with your computer information
https://www.herculesdjmixroom.com/en-us/account/informations/

In "Describe your equipment": describe your computer brand and model, CPU, quantity of RAM, version of Windows or macOS (for example Windows 10 64-bit built 1909), type of USB (USB2, USB 3), USB connection (direct or through a USB hub or through a USB-C adapter - brand and model of the USB hub and the USB-C adapter), version of DJConsole Series driver package for example 2019_HDJS_1, version number of Djuced, for example Djuced 5.0.9.
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Topic starter
Thanks again for the useful indication.
I followed the instructions and managed to get the signal also on the DAC whose analog output I connected to the amplifier with a 3.5mm / RCA adapter.
The quality obtained is always the same. At this point I am convinced that the problem is on the CD input which is not optimal for the purpose. Unfortunately I don't have an AUX input and I'll have to settle for it.
I begin to evaluate the possibility of buying two amplified loudspeakers more suitable for the purpose.
I take this opportunity for a technical question. Is the input signal to the MIX (USB, therefore digital) processed by the mixer at digital or analog level?
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Hello,

1) Regarding the Pioneer SC-LX76 USB-DAC
When using the USB-DAC, please make sure the computer audio output level is loud enough in your PC (in Windows 10:notification area on right of the task bar > click on speaker icon > check the volume bar.
I am not sure we talk of the same USB DAC: I mean the USB DAC built in the amplifier, mentionned in your SC-LX76 manual on page 41.

On this USB Dac I see no analogue output: it should go directly in the amplifier without cable, and it should by-pass the CD-In.

If you meet an issue on the assignable CD input, you may also test the following audio inputs (White & Red RCA inputs):
- Video In
- DVR-BDR In
- SAT/CBL In
- DVD In
as I suppose some of these inputs are not used today on your amplifier.

2) Regarding audio signals: analog & digital
The 2 decks mixing is processed inside the software, in the computer, it is a digital mixing of 2 tracks inside an software.
The 3 mix actions processed inside the DJ controller (still performed at a digital level, between and ADC and a DAC, but it is not in the computer) are:
- Mic input mixed on the master output
- Aux input mixed on the master output
- Headphones Cu->Master mix

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Topic starter
Hello,
all very clear.
But I think I expressed myself badly. When I talked about an external DAC, I was referring to a USB DAC connected to a USB HUB that was in turn connected to the PC.
It is a Fiio BTR5.
I have not noticed any qualitative difference.
I will certainly give it another try using the Pioneer internal DAC instead, as a last resort.
I had already tried the other analog inputs you suggested .... all the same.
Furthermore, the only way to avoid headphone delay is to turn off any filter and even the equalizer. I can have a perfect sychrony only by setting the input to "pure direct", but I get a flat sound.
I am becoming convinced that a DJ console must be connected to dedicated amplifiers or active speakers.
The explanation on the signal process (digital / analog) is interesting.
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Topic starter
Unfortunately my LX76 has no USB DAC port. The one in the picture is probably LX86.
I am now resigned, moreover when I turn on the system the signal coming out of the Klipsh is completely devoid of bass. After a few minutes the bass comes, I just don't know what to think ...
I wait to buy monitors and I will be able to understand if there is a problem with the console.
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Topic starter

Hello Ninosan,

1) Hercules mother company Guillemot has designed audio interfaces for 30 years, even before entering in DJing with Hercules, so the in-house audio engineers know how to get a good audio quality in a €299 device.

2) If the audio quality in your speakers is below your expectation, there are several possible explanations, as:

  • the most likely explanation is a saturation of the amplifier input: if you use home audio or home cinema systems, you must reduce the controller output level in turning down DJC I 500 Master output knob as
    - DJC I 500 output level is +4dBu (input level expected by Public Address speakers and pro audio equipement)
    - home audio systems line level is -10dBv (so +4dBu = +1.8 dBv, 11.8dBv over -10dBv, one must reduce it) 
    If you connect your DJ controller to a Home cinema system, you must connect it on the Aux input, if any, and reduce the master output level until it the audio quality is good. You must also disable any spacialisation effect from the AV amplifier when using the DJ controller as audio source.   
  • another possible origin is ground loop: to check if it is a ground loop, if the computer is a laptop, unplug the laptop power supply (the laptop then runs on battery) : if it stops the noise, the noise origine issue is either a ground loop or noisy laptop power supply,
  • the noise may come from the computer power supply: one can correct it in placing a USB hub with a power adapter between the computer USB port and the USB device (this cuts the noise of the computer USB bus power). I do not believe it is the case here as you would hear the noise also in the headphones.
  • the noise origin may also be a multi-socket power outlet, if the power outlet has a On/off switch with a LED, the LED noise may be transfered in the power (it is why in DJ / Pro audio , it is safer to use power outlets made for music, as these ones, whose LED noise is isolated).

3) HC Lab, an independant lab, has measured DJC I 500 inputs & outputs (not a DAC, the full assembled controller), and on the RCA master outputs the results are:

  • Dynamic range: 101 dB
  • THD+N ratio: -86dB
  • Signal to Noise ratio: 102dB

I can send you the complete HC Lab report in the private messaging area if you want. I do not post it on the forum page as this report includes measures of other DJ controllers.
 

I've added you as a friend, please PM me this report because i am an audiophile junkie and i about to pull the plug on the Inpulse 500

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Hello TnF,

Welcome on the forum.
I have sent you the report in the private messaging area.

If you have a DJC Inpulse 500, it would be useful to complete your profile on My Space > My Profile
- in "Hercules Equipment In Use", select DJControl Inpulse 500
- in "Software In Use", check the name(s) of your DJ software
- in "Describe your equipment", describe your computer

  • brand and model
  • CPU
  • RAM
  • Type of USB port
  • Environment (Eg. Window 10 64-bit)
  • version of DJ software (Eg. Djuced 5.0.9)
  • version of DJ driver (Eg. 2020_HDJS_1)
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Topic starter

Hello TnF,

Welcome on the forum.
I have sent you the report in the private messaging area.

If you have a DJC Inpulse 500, it would be useful to complete your profile on My Space > My Profile
- in "Hercules Equipment In Use", select DJControl Inpulse 500
- in "Software In Use", check the name(s) of your DJ software
- in "Describe your equipment", describe your computer

  • brand and model
  • CPU
  • RAM
  • Type of USB port
  • Environment (Eg. Window 10 64-bit)
  • version of DJ software (Eg. Djuced 5.0.9)
  • version of DJ driver (Eg. 2020_HDJS_1

Thanks a lot for the report, i replied you back in PM with what i think. I will complete the profile when it arrives 🙂

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Topic starter
Guys, I found out the problem 🙂
it is not the console but the software.
I installed virtual DJ for testing, the audio quality compared to DJuced is like day and night.
Besides, the dynamics are also better. I finally recognize my system, I was very worried, I was thinking of buying another console.
So if you have audio quality problems, try other software.
Now I proceed with the listening tests, also with headphones and recordings and I will write in the software section.
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Hello Ninosan,

Thanks for your feedback.
I neither think Djuced audio quality is lower than VirtualDJ, nor do I think the opposite, I believe it should be the same if the audio device is the same with no effect activated, so there is probably a different audio setting somewhere :
- please check if the audio device is the same (ASIO or WASAPI) in both software
- please check if the auto-gain is disabled in Djuced (the small check field below the Gain knob on the screen which become green when activated).  

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Topic starter
I did some tests by ear, just one through the Audacity graphic.
I verified that all the filters were at 0, the masters adequate to have the same level on the Vmeter on both software.
I tried with both ASIO and WASAPI and got the same results.
On the output line, without a doubt, with Virtual DJ software you get a substantially better audio quality in general. Specifically, greater dynamics (you can clearly see it on the Vmeter and this is also confirmed by the Audacity recording chart that records online), greater separation of the channels, greater detail over the entire frequency spectrum.
It's amazing how much difference there is.
In headphones the differences are very minimal, however, there is a greater dynamics in Virtual DJ.
The curious thing, on the other hand, is that on the recordings the quality is comparable to that heard through headphones, therefore minimal differences.
I am not surprised that one software sounds better than another, I also read other specialized forums and we often talk about these differences between various software.
So, unless there is another explanation (which I don't see, though), I'd say DJuced sounds really bad on the OUT master.
When I have time, I also want to try serato DJ.
So, I suggest friend TNF to do the same test. Virtual DJ is available for a free 30 day trial. I'd love to know if he notices these differences too.
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Hello,

The audio settings are not the same in the headphones and the master output.
Can you do the following test in Djuced:
- go in settings, select Channel 3-4 as master output and Channel 1-2 as preview output, and let me know if you get a bad quality on the speaker output,
- make sure the output level (which you can see on the vu-meters) never goes in red, on the deck vumeter and on the master vumeter. If you see any vumeter in red, on screen or on the controller, it is bad.
 
I know VirtualDJ as it is the DJ software I have used the most, I started computer DJing on its ancestor AtomixMP3 20 years ago, I agree VirtualDJ 8 audio quality is very good, but I find the audio quality is the same with Djuced, Serato, Traktor or djay Pro for example when all settings are OK.
So I only think good things of VirtualDJ as I use it a lot, I have a VDJ infinity licence, I think it as the most versatile DJ sofware I have ever used, but I do not believe the difference you hear is due to a better audio quality with VirtualDJ, I rather think you hear a bad setting in Djuced so it is useful to find this bad setting as if you let a bad setting unidentified in 1 software, you may duplicate the same experience in any other DJ software in activating this bad setting unwillingly, and unless you know this setting, you may not fix it,so it would be more secure to find the issue in Djuced, even if you use VirtualDJ.

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Topic starter
I tried all possible settings, as I said I tried again to change between ASIO and WASAPI. I also swapped the channels (1 and 2 with 3 and 4). The audio quality always remains low and inferior to Virtual DJ 2021.
As a last step, I also did this:
I uploaded the same track to Virtual DJ (on one track) and DJuced (on the other track). I started them in sync and I listened to both headphones and loudspeakers. With the crossfader I switched from one track to another to notice the difference. Well, without a shadow of a doubt Virtual DJ sounds much better. In fact I would say that DJuced sounds bad. The same differences can be seen in both headphones and speakers.
I am interested in staying with DJuced, because it is free, and I would also like to keep the Inpulse 500 because for what it costs it is a nice console. But I'm also obsessed with quality audio, so if I don't solve the problem I'll go where I like best.
I have complained about this problem from the beginning, I have followed and made all possible tests, I do not think there are settings that I have not tried. My ear says DJuced sounds bad.
I invite you to make the same comparison that I did, with Virtual DJ 2021, I'm sure you will agree with me.
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Hello Ninosan,

If you do not believe I have already tested and compared Inpulse 500 with the DJ software I have mentionned, there is not much more I can say. I believe on your system (computer, controller, speaker, headphones...) you have a sound issue in Djuced, but on my 3 computers and on my 2 speaker models, I have not audio issues at all, I have a good sound, and it is the same good sound in Serato, VirtualDJ, djay and Traktor as in Djuced.
I do not know why you have a better sound in VirtualDJ than in Djuced, but on my side I have EXACTLY the same sound quality, and without seeing the computer running and hearing the sound, it is difficult to guess why it is not good on your side.

In basic DJ operations, VirtualDJ is probably less CPU intensive than Djuced, so it may be interesting to check your computer is set according to the general guidelines described here. Your computer is powerful enough to do anything in DJing, but it is worth checking its power is available for Djuced.
If you want, I can also ask someone on Djuced team to a virtual appointement with you next week to check all settings?

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Topic starter
Ninosan, assuming your profile information is correct, your Intel NUC has a laptop processor - and to add salt to injury, a low-end one. It's an i7-10710U, and that U stands for ULV, Ultra Low Voltage - which means Intel sacrificed performace for power consumption. If you check the tech spec, the base clock speed is only 1.1 GHz - that's what it could run basically anytime under normal circumstances. However if you check the Performance tab in Task Manager, you coan see higher clock speed there. That's the Turbo Boost technology in action: depending on the thermals and power load / limits, it can go faster. The maximum Turbo Boost frequency is 4.7 GHz for your CPU, but this speed applies to only one processor core and only for a couple of seconds. I have a 4 generation older desktop CPU, the i7-6850K - it has 6 cores with 12 threads, just like your processor. However the base speed is 3.6 GHz, which is more than 3x faster... My maximum Turbo Boost speed is 3.8 GHz, but I have a liquid cooling AIO on it, a high-end power supply and mainboard, also a spacious case, so I've appled a little overclocking on it and that 4 GHz lasts much-much longer (and my mainboard allows tinkering with it, so I've extended it to all cores). In exchange the TDP is 144W, while yours is 15W, but I can go even beyond that easily, if I overclock more the system (in exchange I would get more great and more power draw - which means louder fans, which I'd like to avoid). And my computer weights about 15 kg, while yours 0.5.
So if User Experience Team is right, your CPU power is lacking and that's how it affects the sound quality.
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Topic starter
Are you saying that an i7 processor with Pcle memory is not enough to have the best audio quality? I hope you are joking ...
Sorry but I haven't read anywhere that DJuced requires a very latest generation PC with aerospace power.
Let's be serious, if it is about some setting I assure you that I have tried them all and it does not change. Moreover, even on another PC (dekstop) always with i7 but more recently I recorded the same differences.
At this point either I am too demanding (but I don't think so) or many don't care about the audio quality, as long as it sounds ...
Also don't tell me that software "sounds" all the same. I have no experience with other software but if you read in specialized channels you will find a lot written on this topic.
Finally, I have no desire or time to spend hours rehearsing, I want to spend my time enjoying myself mixing. So I'll use the one that responds best to me and my acoustic perceptions.
Everyone is satisfied with what gives him satisfaction. If you, Sityi are satisfied, I am happy for you.
I took the liberty of sharing my impressions, also thinking of doing something useful for the community here. But if I have to pass for an incompetent or a bullshit, I'm not there.
Thank you very much and everyone chooses the console and the software they want.
I certainly change the software, maybe even the console.
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Topic starter

There are huge performance differences between i7 processors depending on the last letter(s) of the model code. Also bear in mind that a laptop processor has lesser performance level than a desktop - and nowadays you can buy dekstop PCs with a laptop CPU and vice versa. If you don't believe me*, you should check this video about Intel's model naming.
Also, please bear in mind that I did not write anything about Djuced and other DJ software system requirements. All I did was pointing out that your processor may not have that much performance power as you may think - and used my PC as an opposing example about raw performance comparison.
And I write it again: if the User Experience Team is right, this could be the key. I'm not a programmer, but I can imagine DJing requires more CPU power than a simple media player. And each developer approaches the same task with different tools - even the programming language used for development has an effect on how a software behaves on a given PC configuration.

* Would you accept what I say if you would know that I have decades of experience on PC hardware as service technician, field engineer, enterprise IT administrator, journalist as (among others) reviewing hardware including laptops? I know this sounds like I'm boasting myself, but it's quite the opposite - I'd like to help you understand a couple of things and looks like I need to add some weight for you to what I say. Wink

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Topic starter
The team says that my hardware configuration is more than enough to handle DJuced optimally. But you claim that I may have an under-sized CPU for the purpose, yet you claim that you are not a programmer.
Last check made, to confirm my configuration, the task manager tells me that DJuced occupies from 9.4% to 11% of the CPU, 20% of memory. VDJ ivece 1.7% to 3,4% CPU and always 20% memory.
If the software runs together (always with the two channels in play) the CPU never exceeds 20%.
Are you still convinced that I have an underpowered CPU?
Also, I could also overclock the CPU for more performance but it's not needed, so why stress it?
Instead of writing things on which I see that you are not very prepared, try to make a serious ferifica, paying a lot of attention in addition to the quality also to the dynamics of the audio, both in headphones and on the monitors between the two software, then you will tell me.
Of course, I understand that here it is not nice and correct to write about another software, but the question has grown gradually, complaining only about the bad quality of DJuced, then everything came spontaneously.
Therefore I believe that, in fairness, it is right that I withdraw from this discussion in order not to offend anyone. I will propose it on other sites where perhaps I receive concrete confirmations instead of assumptions.
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Topic starter

No, I didn't make any statements. All I did was reflecting on what the User Experience Team wrote: "In basic DJ operations, VirtualDJ is probably less CPU intensive than Djuced" and "Your computer is powerful enough to do anything in DJing, but it is worth checking its power is available for Djuced." I didn' write anywhere that your PC is too weak for Djuced or any other software. All I did was raising attention that an Intel CPU with a model name ending with U can be misleading in expected computing power. But if you point out in my posts what made you belive that 's offending you and stating your computer is not powerful enough. All I said was it's a low-end one - unfortunatley that's a fact what you can check here if you sort the list by base frequency - is this what made you belive I'm offending you?
Regarding what can be written here: noone said you cannot write good opinions about other software. Nor that noone can complain about Djuced. In fact I'm pretty sure Hercules is happy to receive feedback on their product, let it be hardware or software. I think what casues this situation that it's quite odd that a software sounds differently with one software using the exact same environment. Which doesn't mean it can't happen, just very strange.
And please take into consideration that I'm not an employee of Hercules, what I'm writing here is solely my opinion. I just wanted to be helpful.

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Don't worry, I'm not offended.
I only try to examine the problem on concrete facts and not on hypotheses, among other things, without foundation.
I advise you to take a high quality and dynamic file, insert it in the two softwares, adjust the master so as to have the same peak on the VUmeter, carefully observe the dynamics of the VUmeter (you will see that in VDJ it is much more dynamic than in DJuced ) as well as listen carefully through headphones comparing the two listenings. In particular the high frequencies, the definition and the instrumental separation.
Then you will tell me what you think.
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Hi,
I mix in Djuced and VDJ on Impulse 300 with a perfect audio quality in both software, and I get same audio quality as in Ableton Live and Groove Music. If Djuced audio rendering is processed by Windows embedded engine as Groove Music, getting the same audio quality in Groove & Djuced is logical. VDJ low CPU usage means it uses its own audio rendering engine.
To solve the audio problem, 
- a screenshot of the software in operation,
- a screenshot of the audio settings,
- a list of the tests processed and their results, as, but not limited to:
  • sound quality in Serato DJ Lite?
  • sound quality in Groove Music?
  • sound quality in VLC?
  • differences of sound issue when playing WMA, MP3 or WAV tracks in Djuced?
may be more helpful than denying other users may have a good audio quality.
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Hello Yasssss,

Welcome back on the forum and thanks for your suggestions.

I am not sure VDJ lower CPU usage means it uses it own rendering engine, but it may also mean VDJ loads less engines/runtimes when not using them while Djuced loads them if it detects enough ressources, but it is a good direction to explore and check if the software audio codec operate properly. 

As Ninosan duplicated this muffled sound symptom on another computer, do you think a defective audio rendering is a likely explanation? 

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Dear Ninosan,

If you would examine the problem based on facts you would not have attacked me on what I have said about the i7 CPU model family - you would have checked the video I have linked. Also I tried to do a well educated guess... Do you think a Formula 1 driver knows much about racing engineering? Yet he has to tell things about his car so the team could adjust it properly...

Anyway, I have an Asus Zephyrus Duo on me to review, and before I wiped it to send it back I did a test you suggested. The laptop has an i9-10980HK, 32 GB RAM and a 2 TB RAID-0 SSD drive array among others and set the operation mode to Silent, so it won't push the clock speeds to the stars. I have downloaded the Nothing But Startdust by Holon from Bandcamp in FLAC format ensuring I get the original mastering and lossless quality. I have no hifi system - but a couple of good pair of headphones (Razer Nari, Thrustmaster T.Racing Ferrari Edition, Sony MDR-V150), so I connected them to the master output of the Inpulse 500. All knobs were at neutral (12 o'clock position), except the Master Vol, which was at the 2 o'clock marker, so the master VU meter was all the way green and no orange or red. To verify what I hear, I checked not just Djuced and Virtual DJ 2021, but djay Pro (Windows) and Mixxx.
And I don't hear any difference in quality. Not a bit. What I hear is that the 12 o'clock postition of the gain knob means different volume levels in the software I have tested and in this regard Virtual DJ sounds louder, but I highly doubt better. I've noticed that earlier that some of my music which were not properly mastered regarding volume levels are hard to match with a porper one and asked if Djuced could support MP3GAIN / REPLAYGAIN tags to avoid reencoding the actual MP3 file, but apparently it's not as easy as it looks. I've checked with the Inpulse 200 as well, and the same applies to that device.

I do hope we are having a civilised conversation here and only the imperfection of Google Translate makes a couple of thing sound not quite right...

Edit: Based on Yasssssss' post I'd like to add during my testing I closed all software, the AV was the built-in Defender and Skype was not running at all (that little sneaky bastard tend to put itself to the auto startup programs - I've disabled that). Only the Nvidia systray thingie and the Hercules driver systray app was running. I've set both USB buffer size and ASIO buffer size to 4 ms.

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Hi UX T,

Duplicating the sound issue on another PC is a step in a fix to this muffled sound bug: the user can check which programs run on both PCs, as one setting/app/file on both computers is causing this unexpected issue.
It may be an audio rendering program, any audio software, a software codec, a sound virtualisation setting, an antivirus,...

At this step, sometimes the best idea is to ask someone else, as a friend or a child, to check the problem for you: the newcomer has new eyes and may easily see what the usual user no longer sees, and also be able to write the technical information the forum needs.

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Dear Sitiy,
if you felt attacked, sorry, it was not my intention and it is not my habit. I believe that we write here to exchange experiences and impressions in order to improve and, in the event of problems, to resolve them.
Certainly the google traslator (which I use because English is not my mother tongue) never translates into menira pereftta and there could be some misunderstanding.

After the last post, I wanted to redo some tests.
In the meantime, I don't think it's a hardware problem, because even my nuc is not a monster of power, I think it's well beyond the minimum requirements required by DJuced.
The nuc is dedicated only to mixing software, I have no other applications open, the CPU as I said works on average at 5% with DJuced.
The drivers are all up to date and I have no other applications in use while doing the test.
All the audio settings I verified were the same in both DJuced and VDJ. I tried both ASIO and Wasapi with the same results.
I had already noticed that VDJ sounds louder, as you also said, but not only that, I had to set both the gain and the master differently (for listening from the speakers) to have the same sound pressure.
Actually, by adjusting these two parameters well, and listening very carefully both in headphones (I have a very neutral and selective ATH-SR9 technical audio), and through the speakers, I have changed my mind a bit. The sound actually sounds very similar. But I still have some reservations about the dynamics. In fact I don't understand why the vmeter with VDJ jumps from a minimum to a maximum in a much wider way than DJuced, always the peak on the same level.
However, the fact that VDJ sounds louder makes me think that the sound engine maybe .... has a slight EQ in it too. So weak as to be almost imperceptible. If so, no wonder there is also a dynamic range expander in your software. So it makes me imagine the signal is processed.Furthermore, another possibility is also that the signal thus treated, coming out from the master (now I use RCA), may be more compatible with the input of my AV amplifier obtaining a slightly different rendering.
The difference at this point is really almost imperceptible. But I am amazed that if I, a 60-year-old person, notice even very small details, how come a younger person, with certainly more selective hearing, can say that the signal is perfectly the same.

Yassss is also right when he says that it is necessary to demonstrate any differences with concrete evidence, but I am not a sound technician, I do not have the right tools to measure and evaluate two files played with two different software.
At this point, I take a step back, but I want to try again. I just ordered two JBL 308P MKii monitors, to overcome the limitations of my AV system which is certainly not fit for purpose.
In addition, I will connect these monitors to the TS output and also evaluate any differences with the RCA outputs (although I don't think there are).Maybe I was too meticulous, maybe I had a first impression that convinced me and made me stubborn.

I also tried to record the signals obtained with Audacity and compared the two graphs obtained. I did not detect any imported differences to support my theory.
However, because I am like Judas (I don't believe it until I put my finger on it), I will say the last word after having also tested with the monitors.
No hard feelings towards anyone {#emotions_dlg.laughing} {#emotions_dlg.wink}
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I'm glad that we are still on good terms.
I didn't say your PC is not powerful enough, just it may not be as powerful as you think / thought. The Task Manager in Windows is far from being an ideal monitoring software due to how Turbo Boost works in Intel CPUs. You can easily get a huge dip in performance and you won't see it in Tas Manager. But then again, I doubt that's the problem.
What I think where the root cause lies is how different DJ software handles the audio stream. The User Experience Team would correct me if I'm wrong somewhere, but here's how I think the signal goes through:
audio file -> gain -> EQ and filter -> volume fader -> effects -> crossfader -> master volume -> audio output
So it's proecessed all the time, even if all knobs and switches are at their neutral / zero / off position, since the software must react instantly when you apply an effect or change the EQ. How this chain is hadled depends on the actual software itself and I'm pretty sure that's where the difference comes from - and that's where the PC performance has an impact. My headphones I used for testing are not hi-fi ones, they are all gaming headphones - except the Sony one, but that's a cheap entry-level studio monitor headphone. I'm not sure if I would say the same with something more audiophile. I heard the difference, but I considered it as a result of the different sound level, not the quality.

(And I'm terribly sorry, but that was Thomas, not Judas. Wink)

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you're right, I made a slip, it was St. Thomas. Judas was a traitor, and there is no room for him here {#emotions_dlg.wink}

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a not insignificant thing must be said, the quality of the headphones is important to identify the differences. If you want to analyze the audio well you need a studio headphones, very neutral and detailed. Gaming headphones, as well as DJ headphones, are usually "colored" and tend to have more bass (punch) and are a bit dark in the high range.

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I'm perfectly aware of that. However I think the quality difference could have been heard.
(There can be significant differences between gaming headphones as well. Interestingly I feel the T.Racing is more suitable for music / DJing than the Nari, because it has a clearer, "crisper" sound.)

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I update saying that I have received the JBL 308P - MKII monitors which I connected on the TS master outputs.
I'm sorry to say but the quality of the output signal hasn't improved much.
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Hello I have been using the inpulse 500 for a few months now with virtual DJ and m-audio AV32.1 monitor speakers with a m-audio subwoofer and everything was working perfect until recently when everytime I mix there is an awful poping and crackling noise coming from the speakers, I'm also hearing this noise when headphones are plugged into my controller. I have tried using new RCA cables and also swapped over the wires that connect the subwoofer to the speakers but can still hear the weird noises. Would this be a problem with my controller then ? Thanks 

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Hello Jambo,

Welcome on the forum.

If you have any technical issue on computer device

1) please complete your profile with technical information on your device in My Space > My Profile

- in "Hercules Equipment In Use", select DJControl Inpulse 500
- in "Software In Use", check the name(s) of your DJ software
- in "Describe your equipment", describe your computer
  • brand and model
  • CPU
  • RAM
  • Type of USB port
  • Environment (Eg. Window 10 64-bit)
  • version of DJ software (Eg. Djuced 5.1.1)
  • version of DJ driver (Eg. 2020_HDJS_1)
2) describe your computer settings, as:

  • USB connection (direct or via a USB hub: in case of USB hub, brand and model of hub, is it powered by a power adapter)
  • in case  the computer operates in Windows, audio mode (WASAPI or ASIO)
  • Computer power mode (on power outlet or on battery), and if it is on battery, describe the power plan 


3) Describe the tests you probably did and their results, as basic tests most Windows user does:

  • rebooting the computer
  • disabling the wifi on the computer
  • changing the USB port, and setting the controller far from the USB port where you connect the mouse (if the mouse is in USB)
  • disconnecting all other USB devices (except mouse and keyboard)
  • in VirtualDJ > Settings >Audio > set the computer sound card > OK > Restart VirtualDJ > test the sound from the computer sound card > Settings > Audio > Set the DJControl Inpulse 500 ASIO sound device.
As your device host is a computer, with an operating system, you cannot expect guidelines matching your computer without describing your computer settings.

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I would like to update my experience.
Even with JBL monitors, the master audio output is always unsatisfactory.
So, having some external dacs (fiio BTR5 and Fiio M15), I connected the monitors directly to one of the two external DACs. I confirm that the output quality is significantly better. It is richer in detail and has a greater soundstage.
Obviously mine is not a criticism of the console, for this price you cannot expect more, but despite having a 24-bit dac I suggest to those who have the possibility to connect an external DAc to improve the audio quality.
Certainly we must not forget that the console is not a device for professionals and that a quality DAC probably costs as much as the console or even more.
Just to clarify, the Fiio BTR5 is a 24Bit DAC, the Fiio M15 a 32bit DAC, but I didn't notice much difference between the two.
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Hello Ninosan,

Happy New Year.

1) Please confirm the input sensibility of the JBL 308P MK2 speakers is set on -10dBv?

2) I do not know the Fiio BTR5 and M15, but if speakers are connected to their headphones output, the signal is louder due to theheadphones preamplifier, and the signal level may be compared to the output level on DJControl Inpulse 500 headphones output.

3) Hearing the difference between 24-bit and 32-bit DAC probably requires a source playing in 32-bit audio resolution and 32-bit audio tracks: Djuced or Serato do not play in 32-bit audio resolution (their audio engine operates on 32-bit audio resolution, to get headroom in processing, but the audio rendering is processed in 24-bit/16-bit, depending on the resolution of the sound card). 
I do not think standard DJ software play in 32-bit as this audio resolution is used in audio production software, but not in DJing (it is much too big for Djing, such a rendering would cause a lot of latency issues).

To compare you DACs with 32-bit and 24-bit audio quality, you may test
- audio files recorded in both 24-bit and 32-bit resolution (as basic WAV samples here or here,or (crazy) 384kHz/32-bit PCM here )
- on a digital audio workstation software, if you have any (as Pro Tools, Logic Audio or the free Audacity)
- or a media player capable to render audio in 32-bit, as Wynil.
As your Fiio M15 is a mobile audio player, I suppose it includes an app capable to render audio in 32-bit, but if it does not, it is probably compatible with Neutron Music Player, which renders audio in 32-bit.

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Hello


Happy new Year to you too.

1) I confirm that the input sensitivity of the JBL 308P MK2 speakers is set to -10dBv.

2) It is not a question of stronger signal, I adjust the volume so much to have the same acoustic pressure that I have with the Inpulse 500, the difference is the better audio quality, both in terms of bandwidth (especially on the high frequencies which are more ' details) and the separation of the channels.
It is clear that the Inplse 500's internal DAC is inferior, but as I said, we cannot expect a higher value DAC than the console alone.

3) The purpose was not to compare the two DACs, I do it on a HI-FI system with master and / or MQA files, with a "bit perfect" software. However, out of curiosity, I compared the two DACs equally.

Mine was just a suggestion for those who, like me, have the availability of an external DAC superior to the internal one of the impulse, to improve the audio quality towards speakers.
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Hello,
I would like to thank everyone for their support. Unfortunately I leave you because I have decided to change and now I have a Denon MC7000 with me.
The ercules, for the money it costs, remains a chosen value but moving to Denon is a whole other planet, another "music", the monitors are reborn.

I was also used to DJuced software, now I have to change that too.
Congratulations to the staff for their availability.
Best regards.
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3) HC Lab, an independant lab, has measured DJC I 500 inputs & outputs (not a DAC, the full assembled controller), and on the RCA master outputs the results are:

  • Dynamic range: 101 dB
  • THD+N ratio: -86dB
  • Signal to Noise ratio: 102dB

I can send you the complete HC Lab report in the private messaging area if you want. I do not post it on the forum page as this report includes measures of other DJ controllers. [\Quote]

Hello, I have the Impulse 500 for a week now, and it really sounds great !
DJuced is a really good software 😉

I'm interrested with this HC lab report, may I ask you to have a look at it ?

 

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So sad that thread was always talking about how "feels" the sound, trying to ear a difference between 24bit and 32 bits DAC ... with ears through headphones !

(I'm a sound engineer on live events, and have done MAO since 1998 , played with a lot of gear, synth, mixers, soundcards ...)

There is softwares very usefull for comparing 2 audio sources , Smaart (not a cheap option) or Systune (demo is enough) or Faber accoustical (macos), and maybe others ...
There you can measure differences , analyse signals etc, it's not feeling and opinions .

I'm not saying there is no audible differences between a 16bit/44khz ,16bits 48khz and a 24bit/96khz signal etc etc , that was clearly something possible to ear 20 years agodue to differences in DAC design and quality (a 16/44 mic input on a laptop was just a joke more like 44khz 8 bits )
But nowadays quality has incresed significantly, entry level gear sounds better than before.

There are always been debates with preamp sounding colder/crisper/warmer ... than another one , analysing with more or less damaged ears (from a 20 to 50 years old human) trought more or less quality speakers or headphone.
I have done a few A/B blind test, with friends, and I must say that any subject playing the game will not judge identically when he knows wich gear is playing.
That's a fact, we are human, some *believe* in 2k$ Gold cable , others in commercial claims ..

We do not ear the same from one day to another, it's physical, like old analog synth that require a desired temperature to be stable.

On one side you will have a 32bit / 192 khz track masterised by an experienced sound engineer on 200k$ gear, on the other a Home producer with 16/44 quality gear , and at the end both track will be played on a consumer level *hifi* system ... I don't think many people will notice the differences between the tracks.

Most of the time , those controllers will play mp3 files ! 
Obviously there is a difference between a 320kbps and a wav 16-44khz file , but you need really good monitors in a quiet room or headphone, listen carrefully with A/B swap to ear it .
Depend on the audio content also, after 16-18 khz
 
On a mid level PA system, you can't ear the differences, they mostly won't render correctly after 18khz, and our more or less old ears don't ear so much after 17khz.

Anyway, a track playing on a Thinkpad laptop, wired trought the embedded line out is 6 dBU lower than if I play on the Hercule impulse 500, I just plug the usb cable and I can boost the master level at +6dbU before analog clip (as labelled on the mixer) but even if I go further, it still sounds good, there is no audible distorsion, as we still are in analog domain in the gain structure.
There is no hiss or noise, honestly.

All that said, you have to buy the gear you can affort, if you are limited by budget, it won't be a drama, Even a 80usd controller will sounds good, I mean that nobody will say you that the sound is awfull 😉 ... not by the controller !
If it's the case, Maybe more due to an entry level PA pushed to the max.

From my point of view, this e thi only lack of symetric XLR outputs, and 100mm fader for pitch and vol ...
maybe in a future Impulse 1000 at 500 usd 😉👍

EDIT: I'm sure thie issue related to this topic was due to DJUCED, they have renew and recalibrated the sound engine this summer, just before I bought it, so thanks to Ninosan and the SAV who where listening and trying to find a solution for him.

I know other company who know how to sell, but not alway support their gear constantly... start with a P 😉

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Hello Sebashi,

Welcome to the forum, I have sent you the report on the website private messaging area, here

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